Something New Every Week
Something New Every Week
Mastering Efficiency and Authenticity in Your Photography Business with Caroline Tran
Do you ever feel like there's never enough time in the day to tackle your photography business, let alone pack efficiently for a shoot? Picture this: you're listening to an engaging conversation with the incredibly talented Caroline Tran, a Los Angeles-based photographer and entrepreneur who's about to change the game for you. Join my co-host Jackie Tobin and me as we chat with Caroline about her unique approach to business, problem-solving, and yes, even her impressive travel packing skills.
From handling more inquiries than she can personally take on to utilizing associate photographers with full transparency, Caroline shares her journey to becoming a more efficient photographer and the impact it's had on her business. Discover her secret to fitting entire outfits in her shoes and learn why building systems for success and fostering strong relationships with vendors are essential ingredients to a sustainable photography business.
But wait, there's more! As we navigate the potential dangers of AI-generated portfolios and discuss the importance of distinguishing between styled shoots and real client work, Caroline leaves us with some valuable insights on how to grow and maintain an authentic and thriving photography business. Don't miss out on this enlightening episode filled with wisdom straight from Caroline Tran herself!
Hey there, thanks for tuning in to Something New Every Week with your host, me, jason Group. Each week, i'm going to give you something new that's happening in our photographic world just some great conversations with my friends and what's going on right now. Something New Every Week is sponsored by Miller's Lab. Miller's Professional Imaging is the largest professional lab organization in the United States. They provide professional prints and press products for professional photographers in all 50 states and Canada, and they're just a great company. If you don't know them, go check them out. Millerslabcom. Welcome to this week's episode of Something New Every Week. This week, my trusted co-host, jackie Tobin, is back here with me from Traveling the World and we'll get into that a little bit. And this week's guest is Caroline Tran from Los Angeles. This time I think I've got it right. She is a phenomenal photographer. She's also somebody that's worked in our industry for a long time. Caroline, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. Good to be here.
Speaker 1:Cool, hi. Hi, jackie say hello.
Speaker 3:Hello Caroline.
Speaker 1:I don't get it, hello. Anyways, hi, jason, i talk to you all the time We do, that's good.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that's nice is and again for those of you who don't know Jackie and I used to work together at Rangefinder and WPPI and now we're back together as a dynamic duo again, many years later, and I am thrilled that we get to talk to each other. We used to sit together every single day for hours and hours and hours and hours, and I miss her quite a bit. so it's glad to be here today. But this is not about me and Jackie. This is about Caroline. Jackie, i'm going to kind of let you take over a little bit and kind of come back and forth in here as we go.
Speaker 3:Well, i met Caroline in 2009 in France. We were both at an Elizabeth Messina workshop. That's how we met. And then, over the years, i've seen your career, caroline, just flourish and burgeon, and I mean you're such an incredible photographer, but you're also such an incredible entrepreneur. I mean I'm just so impressed by you all the time And if I'd never met you, i'm impressed by you. But I just want to start out with something fun, which is you're like this packing savant I don't know if everybody knows about that a travel packing savant And I saw this crazy video from WPPI. You had like two minutes to get to your seminar, but then you were packing your bag because you were leaving right afterwards And the stuff you managed to get in there. I just want to ask you what's your big tip for that, because I was so impressed and I'm the worst packer in the world.
Speaker 2:I love Tetris, i love packing a trunk Like I find great joy in making everything fit, and so you know I travel a lot for work and I'm always trying to reduce the number of things I have to carry, and some of the things that I've found really helpful is if you actually plan out your what you're actually going to wear in a fair And then reuse as many pieces as you can. I mean, that sounds kind of obvious, but that's how I cut down on the stuff And then, when I really need to, when I'm running out of space, I actually roll up all of my small items and stuff them into my shoes.
Speaker 3:Right, that was the thing that really impressed me And I feel like this is my segue into like how you are, like part of your personality, or how you attack your business. You're efficient, but you're not. It doesn't take away from, like you know, the beauty of your work, or like delivering your all, but like you're very organized and efficient. And I know that during COVID, like, you started those 15 minute mini sessions correct me if I'm wrong, i think it was during COVID. But you know, you just see things differently than most people, than how I see things, and I feel like you're always looking for another way to expand your brand, but, of course, only if it's important to you. So how did those sessions come about and where have they brought you now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one of I don't know how much of my background you know, but I was a physics major. I got my bachelor's in physics but two years in I already knew I had no interest in pursuing physics any further. And I remember when I wanted to switch out, my professor was telling me you know, the one thing that you'll learn the most in physics is logic and problem solving. That's going to be your greatest asset. And I was like, okay, i don't quite see it, but I'll stick through it.
Speaker 2:I got my degree in it but I really see it playing into business now because, as a, i see myself as the people's problem solver And I find great joy in that. So, whether it's my clients or my coaching you know clients like photographers that I'm helping whenever I'm speaking at seminars. I really love helping people identify their problems and then coming up with a solution for that And, of course, if I could monetize that solution even better. You know it comes from a genuine place of wanting to help people And most of my business ideas come from that place.
Speaker 2:So with the 15 minute sessions that you were talking about. That happened during the pandemic because, like, a couple of things happened during the pandemic And I no-transcript I'm always hesitant when I say this, but the pandemic, like, i really loved being locked down. I love being forced to slow down because my pace is normally so fast all the time And I know that I'm saying that from a place of great privilege and I don't take that for granted. But what being locked down did for me is one making me remember what was important to me in my life And being able to be with my kids that much like I loved it. I'd wanted to just keep them there, right. Then that takes me to the next part of the business is okay. If I really love being with them this much, how can I build my business to give me more of that?
Speaker 2:We go into business because for several reasons, right, but one of it is for the flexibility, like I think most of us. Like, if we wanted to be on someone else's schedule, we would have stuck to a nine to five, right. But we choose entrepreneurship and all the hardships that come with it, the challenges that come with it, because it will give us a lot more flexibility and a lot more possibilities as well. And so if you are now finding yourself at the mercy of your business right, your vacations are dependent on when your shoots are, and stuff then I feel like it's taken away from our intentions to begin with. So it was a good reminder of that. It's like, okay, i went into this because I want flexibility in my schedule. Like, am I getting that? It was a good check-in. So one of the things that. So that was like one problem I saw. The other problem I saw is that a lot of my family clients were actually one realizing the importance of family, more, wanting to document family, and sadly, there was also a lot of loss as well happening during that time. So people just wanted to find ways to celebrate family in the very limited way that we were able to celebrate at the time, and so it's like, how can I help at the time.
Speaker 2:So it started off as I was offering garage sessions. I would come and just set up a studio in front of your garage. I started offering family narratives, which was like video, slash, photo, hybrid experience where you because at that time I realized like we are living through history right now, like this is going to be in history books. You know, like this is what we talk about, like what our grandkids are going to talk about in the future, and like as this, like weird 2020, that happened, right. And I was like, and we actually get to be here, so how can we start documenting this? And so I started.
Speaker 2:I did it with my own kids first, but then other families saw and wanted to do it too. But it's like what if you could leave a time capsule for your kids When your grandkids are learning about the great 2020 pandemic in the future? what if they could actually watch a real video of you sharing your account on this experience, right? So then that was another fun project that we did And I would just film that. A lot of it was done remotely, like pre-production, remotely. I would come film from outside of the house through their windows, and then, you know, that evolved into when it was safe to be indoors. Then I started moving them in as mini sessions indoors And what I noticed?
Speaker 2:oh, i've always loved mini sessions because it allows me to get a lot of sessions like 25 up to 25 sessions in one day. 25 families in a day. I can knock out 75 families in one weekend, and that opens up the rest of the month for me to hang out with my family. I love these intents, like just, i love being efficient.
Speaker 2:So what I always tell other photographers is like you have 75 families ready to pay you for a photo shoot, can you deliver? Even if you did two sessions a day, you would be working. You couldn't fulfill it. Even if you worked every single day of the month, you would not be able to fulfill it Right, and that would already. And most people, when I ask how many sessions can you take realistically in a day, they'll say two or three, and in that case, with that 75, right, it would take you an entire month of breaking your back trying to fulfill it. And so the mini session was a system that I created where I was able to service 75 sessions in one weekend, freeing me up for a lot more creative work, time for my family, personal stuff, relaxing, traveling and such. So, and especially during the holidays sorry, i'm going to wait for him to finish walking out. That's my son, by the way, on crutches. First week of summer break.
Speaker 2:Awesome, that's a great way to start the summer vacation. Yes, on the second day of break. He's wearing his cap and is now on crutches.
Speaker 1:Oh, poor guy. I wish I could see him and say I'm sorry, but I can't. I can't see the video.
Speaker 3:I can see him. I'm sorry, Elliot.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so like, especially during the holidays, my goal is to not work between Thanksgiving and New Year's, and I think that comes from my teaching background. Oh, yes, i used to be a high school physics teacher as well. But there are certain habits that I created from that, which was one unplugging during the holidays, like not working, not thinking about work, And I loved having that flexibility coming into running my own business. So sorry, he's a little loud.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you hear him. No, he's fine, no worries.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's fine. And so for me, how can I? once Thanksgiving rolls around, i'm on family mode. I want to host. I host Thanksgiving. Oh no, my aunt hosts Thanksgiving, but I host Christmas. And so we starting from Thanksgiving is when I'm shifting into like holiday mode, like planning parties for people and just the kids are out of school, like how to be with them and the schools have activities right. So it's like how can I make sure that I don't miss any of these big moments? And so I need to. In order to do that, i need to clear my calendar, which means I need to shoot as many of them before Thanksgiving as possible. And so in the month of November, we can easily do over 100 families in that single month, And I would not be able to do that if I didn't have that very efficient mini session system.
Speaker 3:Right, and you had like your whole posing system down for that as well. But if I'm a photographer starting out and I look at your model and I think so I'm going to do sessions that are less time, does that mean I have to charge less? No, right, but I think photographers get intimidated. How do they tackle that? So?
Speaker 2:I love that you talk that up, because that's such a misconception I find that early photographers have, and even myself, right Where, just because I could do it in 15 minutes, it's only worth 15 minutes of my time. But if you think about it and this is for photographers who are feeling like so if you look at my business, these 15 minute sessions if you take it like minute, for you know, pay like dollars per minute it actually is more expensive than if you book a regular session.
Speaker 2:So, I want to just put it out there that it's a myth that many sessions are discounted sessions. They are not at all. You are actually bringing greater value to your clients by being able to do this in a shorter amount of time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially with families.
Speaker 2:And the best way that I can explain this is the first real life example that I got was when I bought my first house and we had popcorn ceiling and I got a quote and it would have been $1,000 to remove the popcorn ceiling And I was thinking $1,000. I looked it up on YouTube and it looked really easy. Oh, you just spray water on and scrape it off.
Speaker 2:All right, Got my brother-in-law to come and we did. we spent an entire day and we only got one bedroom done. So I call the people back again. They came in and they did the entire house in an hour.
Speaker 1:And I'm thinking what?
Speaker 2:I just paid you $1,000 for one hour. And I'm like no, actually I paid you $1,000, just saved me three days.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:It probably would have taken me three plus days, right? So it's the same concept with your clients. And I also realized this how it applied to business when I was training my associate photographers. I offer my many sessions with me and they are 10 to 15 minute sessions, like I get them done. So when I booked my associate to do, i offer cheap recessions with my associate, thinking that they can knock it out.
Speaker 2:But what I realized is what I can do in 10 to 15 minutes actually takes a less experienced photographer two to three times as long to get the same results. So that doesn't mean that I should charge less because I could do it faster. That means that my time is worth more. So just because a photographer is charging you say $100 an hour, or I'm just making up numbers for easy calculation sake right, but it takes them five hours to do the same work that you could have done, say, in 30 minutes, right. And I find this especially true when I'm quoting for commercial work. I feel like weddings, you can't dictate the number of hours so much anyway. I mean kind of like they're getting ready to a certain extent, but the wedding day you can't dictate the schedule.
Speaker 2:But I find with commercial work is where it really comes in handy, because let's say that they want photo and video of 10 products right, Like I don't know, 10 products with five different colors each, or something like that. A less experienced photographer might say I only charge $100 an hour, but it's going to take me 10 hours or I don't know, three days or something, to do this For me. I might come in saying I charge $1,000 an hour, but I can get this done in 90 minutes. So yeah, I would want newer photographers to realize that as you become more efficient, it doesn't mean you charge less, You start to make more, in fact.
Speaker 3:Right, and that's what I want them to know too. Like that's why I want to get your input on that. But also, don't you think that if I'm a client and I book you but then I get your associate or contract photographer, don't you think people, like clients, would tend to pay more to get Caroline Tran versus one of your associates?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and that's value that you explain as well. So, I started offering associates because I was getting way more inquiries than I can handle myself. I also realized that because I have good SEO, I get a lot of cold leads. So the people who come in either fall into the I love Caroline Tran, I must have Caroline Tran. Those people will pay a premium to have it.
Speaker 2:I also have a ton of just cold leads Like that just came in randomly, just needing, because they looked up LA photographer and I came up. They actually don't even know me or care who I am and they just need a job done And in those cases, like the associate, they would be more than happy with that. But I do make it transparent so that they know that there's no bait and switch here where they think they're getting me and they get someone else instead.
Speaker 3:Right, no, that's great, jason, i'm hogging. No, no, no, no, i just want to.
Speaker 1:I think that I'm intrigued by being able to do 75 sessions in a day, and it's definitely like if you were going to rate it. Is this beginner to experience mode? This would definitely be experience mode, not just in this. Maybe you can book 75 sessions, but then you have to get through culling, editing, sending out and have a system and play for how that's done. I love to hear you talk a little bit about that as well, because if I had 50, 60, 75 sessions, if and I also need to make the point that I love you for the packing stuff, because nothing stresses me out than not having my stuff packed, and I also pack my clothing in my shoes as well You'd be amazed. And I have size while feet, so I can put a lot of clothes in my shoes. You'd be amazed. I can get whole outfits in my shoes.
Speaker 3:Anyway, you have to see the video I have to show you.
Speaker 1:I think I found the video and I'm definitely going to watch it, but I have to ask you, caroline, before we get into that other part There was a post out on Facebook with some of our friends the other day talking about how they were leaving in the morning and they hadn't started packing yet And they were all saying, yeah, me too, i'm the same way. I was so stressed by just reading the post. Do you get stressed as well, like, if you don't, pine.
Speaker 2:So I actually packed last minute.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I can't take it.
Speaker 2:Watch my Beeson on YouTube. I did a whole WPPI, an episode just on my journey, did a WPPI And you see me packing at. I think it was like 2 in the morning.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I'm so stressed right now.
Speaker 2:It was amazing, right before I had to leave, i packed it. I think I just think very last minute and I work best under pressure, but that doesn't mean that I didn't thought about it, right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So I think just to kind of make anyone feel better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i find that most preparatory. Anything, whether it's packing my gear, is the same way. I wait right before to pack my gear, but that doesn't mean that I hadn't thought about it long before I had lecture meetings. I've already thought about the gear I'm going to need, but I just wait till the last minute to physically put things together. And if I really stress out, then I'll open up my phone on notes and just make a list And then that lets me go to sleep in peace in the next day.
Speaker 3:But what if you buy something coming back And then where do you put it, we have no room for that.
Speaker 1:There's no room for that.
Speaker 3:I would like. what does it have to do then, i think? But it's important. It also shows how you think, like the mentality of how you approach everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I saw the wedding in Italy last year And what I did was I bought two luggage that nested in each other And I packed the smaller luggage, nested it in the bigger luggage and then so traveled like that And then waited till I went shopping And I tried to wait till the end. Then I split them into two.
Speaker 1:Oh that's all right, i love it. I've done that. I've done that. I've done that as well. You and I are more alike than you think, but.
Speaker 2:I love your question about right like the logistics of managing 75 sessions in one week, and you're right, it is. I would say that this is like expert level to be able to handle that, because there's many different layers to it. What I love about trying so just to give you a little background about how I also approach things. I always think about what if I'm hit by a bus And what happened. And this happened when I met with a mentor a few years ago And my business was doing well, revenue is doing well, i have no issues booking right. But the simple question he asked me that really put things to perspective was what happens if you get hit by a bus. I was like, oh, he's like you don't have a business, you have a hobby that makes money.
Speaker 2:I'm like you're right. He's like because a true business, what has sustainable systems in place that doesn't require you to be in it, i was like you are so right So it took me about 18 months, i think, to really get like So the systems happen in second.
Speaker 1:Nope, do we lose you, caroline?
Speaker 3:I think we lost her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we lost her Me, oh, but Hello, yes, am I back? You're back, yes.
Speaker 2:Yay, yay.
Speaker 1:The Skype system isn't liking us.
Speaker 2:I know Tom hit by a bus Right.
Speaker 1:Ha ha, ha ha. Unfortunately, the show won't go on without you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if this was a video, you can have a graphic of a bus coming by, but yeah, so it forced me to start putting in systems And the idea was what if I'm not around to carry this out? So in my company we call it a runbook And it's essentially an instruction manual. The first part that I tackled was post-production, which kind of answers your question about how do you handle 75 sessions in deliver 75 sessions, and what will probably impress you is that we finish shooting Sunday and all galleries are delivered Monday.
Speaker 2:They get some of that every next day.
Speaker 1:Wait, what Back to back that bus up?
Speaker 2:Ha ha ha ha, and a lot of this has evolved over the years. Right And so, as for anyone out there who's building your business and just so you know that these are all segments from a full course I have called Like Nobody's Business. That really runs down how to systematically run a business. But what I always tell people in this course is don't expect it to happen overnight. There's seven chapters in this course. You're not going to do it all in a year even. You're going to pick one thing you're going to tackle first. So for me, the easiest thing to tackle first was post-production, because that was the thing that I hated the most. I notoriously fell asleep at the computer if I'm here for longer than 15 minutes. So the first thing was how do I create an instruction manual that I can hire even a high school student to come in?
Speaker 2:and fulfill And so a lot of that. And back when I was a teacher and I think this is where that comes in we called this our metacognitive process. It's the thinking about thinking right. It's not just what we're doing, but it's the why behind. How do we come to those decisions that we make? So if you can articulate this out into a manual and someone else can follow it, then you no longer have to keep training someone every time.
Speaker 2:I'm OK with getting like for post-production if they are temps during busy season, because I know that I have this foolproof manual. So the way that I tested it out first is I had a college student reach out to me and said that she wanted to intern with me. I was like great, at that time I had an assistant who was already doing post-production, so I made her do the manual. I trained her. So this way I only trained once. I trained her, i made her do the manual. I tested the manual on the intern. I was like can you follow this? Here's the manual, see if you can follow this and finish. It has everything down to where to put files, how to name them, the criteria for calling, the criteria for editing based on the type of sessions, what range. I want it called down to what the min and the max should be, and then I tested it on the intern And if there was any questions she had, then those are the holes that we needed to fill out. And then it got passed down.
Speaker 1:Oh, and that is a great tip.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's so smart Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm proud that I got it to the point where my 11-year-old son started to help me with post-production.
Speaker 3:Wow, nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he has a part-time job. Now I was like test out this manual for me And he has that manual opened up on one screen and he follows instructions And I just wait and see And if there's any. So we have weekly team meetings And anytime there's issues that come up, we call them interruptions. So anytime that something takes you away from your normal workflow, we address it. We have a whole section in the meeting just called interruptions. So, for example, if something was mis-exported or if something was culled in properly, or if a session came back incorrectly, that's an interruption. Then we can revisit the runbook and see how was this problem caused and how can we prevent it from happening next time. So what I like about this is that amongst my team there never is shame and mistakes. There's never blame, that pointing fingers. It is what it is. We made this mistake. Where did it happen? Where did that whole happen And how do we prevent it from happening next time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the review process is so important when you're putting systems like that together. Thanks for bringing that up.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's great, yeah, but yeah, so that's how the post-production is done, so I can bring anybody in in theory, and they should Like. The person who helps me with my post-production is not even a photography person. She has actually zero experience with photography other than her iPhone. Even better, yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I think my favorite part about that tip is the fact that you kind of work them through a program and then you make them write down the actual program itself because, I would never do it right.
Speaker 1:So I have the systems in here and then it would be such a drag to put those systems together. And it's funny. it's very kind of top of mind for me because I'm actually going out for some shoots next week and I'm trying to, i don't have a college intern coming in to help me, and this is exactly what it's. So, thanks, i'm going to make her write everything down after she's done.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so, in terms of packing gear, for example, i take a picture of how I want the gear packed, so then I don't have to do it. So, like before a wedding day, my assistant comes in early and then she just replicates There's a list I have down to like, based on systems. So then that way, like this is my portrait system, this is my reception system, and then she knows how to pack based on the gig that we're going to.
Speaker 3:Awesome, but I think you have to just make sure that college intern doesn't throw you in front of the bus and then take the bus. That's just the way my brain works, sorry.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is the way Jackie's brain does work, by the way.
Speaker 3:But it's a brilliant system. But I'll ask Jason if he has anything else, because I know we're like.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we're at 30 minutes. We're at about 30 minutes. So everything you've talked about we'll put in the show notes. But I do have one more question, unless, jackie, you have something. But I'll ask my question first. I've been asking I know that we're in June at this point but your thoughts on DiopPPI and things that surprised you. I did watch through your video here. It's really great, as we were chatting. And I love that journey, but any random thoughts or feelings about this year's show.
Speaker 2:I mean WPPI, and I have said this many times, but it really holds a special place in my heart. It's where I grew. It's where I met a lot of my mentors. The networking has been invaluable. I've never been a good student. I'll be honest about that. I cannot sit through lectures. I fall asleep.
Speaker 2:And knowing that about me, my learning style I don't attend classes. Well, i'm more hands-on. Things that I would thrive better on is either the photo walks. But for me and I'm saying this because I think if you are a new photographer, it's obvious the value that WPPI has All the classes, the people you're going to get to meet, the number of educators you're going to be exposed to and that's such a great deal versus paying for everyone's individual workshop. So, as a new photographer, i think it was the single thing I did that helped me grow the fastest. Now, for veteran photographers who might be thinking I don't want to sit through classes, i think the networking is invaluable Walking the trade show floors. a lot of my sponsors were found through WPPI. It's the conversations that you have on the trade show floors.
Speaker 2:I prefer to do business with small businesses who I actually have, a person, like all of my album companies. There is a person I can text My lab. There is someone I can text right away And, for example, i unfortunately have had many memorials that I've had to, especially during 2020, people needed just quick prints For me to be able to text my print lab and say there's an order coming in, i need it expedited, or I'm going to send someone to come pick it up like a courier pick up, because we need it ASAP.
Speaker 2:But being able to have that like having a direct contact, And that doesn't happen if you don't attend these trade shows. There's not another place I can think of where you would meet so many vendors all in one place, And all of the vendors that I work with. I can proudly say that I have a personal relationship with each of them.
Speaker 1:And those take work right, you've got to be in front with them. That's a really good point that I don't really think about that much anymore. Like you, i have very deep relationships with a lot of the vendors that I work with And you know, i think that's definitely something that's lost in the in-person part of getting to know a vendor in person and being able to build a relationship with them, and it's almost kind of like a little bit of a lost art in the sense that we don't have face-to-face contact with a lot of people that we deal with on a daily basis, especially with business stuff, and that's a really good point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when you have vendors that you have personal relationships with, it really feels more like a team. It's less transactional And I've had um situate a lot of you know these creative projects that I come up with, for example, require personal, like custom books made. It doesn't fit the mold of anything right, but that's also why my clients love it so much, because it's going to be something they've never seen before. But for that to happen I need a partner who's going to be able to help execute that. Because I have personal relationships with these albums companies, i'm able to approach them and say I have this idea.
Speaker 2:I want a custom album that is going to be like this. Can you help me create that? They help me. They're part of that troubleshooting process. You know on how to create it efficiently while keeping costs down.
Speaker 1:Because you're going right to the expert right away. So a simple phone call alleviates what 10 emails right And the back and forth, and then you know going. they can answer your question right away And there's a lot to be said for that.
Speaker 3:Cool, cool. It sounds like common sense, but I know, like so many photographers who started out like trying to do it all themselves And they don't outsource anything and they try to do the albums. You know it's like it's just too overwhelming, like do what you do best, like not you personally, but like if you're best at like the creation of the images, and then get everybody else to do the other stuff, but it's still as long as it's still maintaining your aesthetic and your brand, which it is right. So I just think a lot of the newbies also don't understand that And I keep talking about newbies because, like I'm thinking about all the rising stars we've worked with and just starting out in a business like one to five years.
Speaker 3:It's overwhelming but you're like the perfect example of how you know you can just really excel if you know what you're the strongest at And then other things you just don't have time for. you outsource it, but you can still like maintain control over it.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, like you don't have to do it all yourself. You can't do it all yourself, and the reality is there is someone out there who can do it better than you and cheaper than you. If you really think about your time right.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:And even for I know I remember mentoring a photographer who insisted on printing all of his own photos. And when I asked how long that was taking. It's like okay. Well, did the client actually care that you handprinted it, or would they have been just as happy at a professional lab?
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Right, and what? and what took you an hour could have been a five minute submission process, and what could you have done with that hour instead?
Speaker 1:Marketing.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Marketing, business making plans, Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all right. Last question, jackie, if you have any, Well, this might not be, in a nutshell, answer for you, but or a question for you, but you know, is AI affecting your business?
Speaker 1:in any way yet.
Speaker 3:Or what do you think of the whole thing? Because I have so many photographers asking me about, or how you know, with the whole copyright aspect of it, like, what are your quick thoughts?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that's like what's one thought. There are things I do love about AI. I utilize it in my post production now. So I do use AI for culling and editing And it's made. It has made my post production so fast and has made it so that literally my than 11 year old now 12 year old son can do it for me. But I also have seen it not good, because some of the ethical issues that I have is copyright stuff. Right, the AI is learning from existing people. So if I'm coming on AI, let's say that I am a new photographer And if you're, i'm going to speak from the place that genuinely someone is trying to build their business. Right, it may be tempting to have AI create images of what you wish you can create, but the danger with that is if you can't fulfill it, then you're setting yourself up for unhappy clients and a lot of complaints. Right, because I have seen people generate fake wedding photos.
Speaker 2:Wow Fake portraits, fake portraits, Yeah like entire websites. Yeah, entire websites with entirely people that don't actually exist. That's insane. Yeah, editorial portfolio, because I can go into AI right now and say create, you know a photo in any legal, with style or with Rembrandt, lighting with you know like, give details, like that right.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Of a. You know, describe the model of what you wish the model to look like and what you wish that they were wearing, and you will have this beautiful portfolio of images. But the reality is, if you now have a real client that comes in and wants you to recreate that of them, can you do it Right? So resist the temptation, and this is the same advice I was giving back in the day when style shoots were really popular.
Speaker 1:And I think they still are Some people.
Speaker 2:I always discourage people from putting style shoots into the portfolio, especially if it's not something you can replicate later, and it's so. When I do portfolio reviews, like website reviews, it's so obvious when you see what's styled and what they shot at a workshop and suddenly to something they did with real clients. It's like night and day, and if it's looking that different, you are setting yourself up for unsatisfied clients who are going to ask for their money back, and that's very demoralizing to have to deal with. So it's better not to instead, like put up realistically what you can create, and it's okay if you are trying to raise your level, but do it step by step, you know, to make sure that you can actually fulfill it Well, thank, you I mean, thank you so much for joining us today, thank you for your time And we went over time.
Speaker 3:I mean, i'm so thrilled to see your face. Likewise, and Jason, you might be frozen but you have anything else to say? Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm definitely a video challenge today, that's for sure. Is there any place you'll be speaking over the next year? I know you spoke at ImagingUSA and you were at WPPI, but if somebody wants to see you, i mean we're going to put links to all of your stuff on here in the show notes, but is there anything coming up where we can see you live in person?
Speaker 2:Yes, So I don't think it's announced yet, but maybe by the time this will Portrait Masters.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And then September, September, right.
Speaker 3:Yes, September in.
Speaker 2:Arizona, and but for those who can't travel like I have, i've put a lot of my education content up online to make it easy access for people, and my goal is just to make as great of an impact as I can during my time the time that I have right now And so YouTube you know a lot of free source of info there, and then, if you go to carolinechraneducationcom, i also have a lot of other like free webinars type of stuff, and then also like full courses. I have a mini session, so I love that you brought up the mini sessions about how to shoot it versus how to market it. I have a separate course for each of them. One is like the 15 minute portrait And that's just teaching you how to shoot very efficiently, from lighting to posing, from families to couples. And then the mini session roadmap, which is more about like how to launch and the marketing, the leading up, like the behind the scenes of how to fill those calendar.
Speaker 3:That's great And that's yeah, that's the.
Speaker 1:and you're right, it is in two pieces. So learning how to shoot them is one skill set, and then marketing them is the other skill set, And it's not often that photographers can do both, wear both hats and do it well. You are one of those. what's the word I'm looking for? Strange birds, not the right word but anomalies is a better word. I mean that as a compliment that you can do both.
Speaker 1:And I've interviewed a bunch of people and generally the people who have more of a like a scientific background can do well on the marketing side, But you really pair both really well together. It's really impressive what you've done and I'm glad we got a chance to talk today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks. I got a lot of requests about sharing the post-production of the mini sessions and like the logistics of like actually running the day of and up to delivery, and so I'm actually in the process and hopefully it'll be announced by the time this is released of doing an in-person two-day workshop.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:That just finally ties everything together where we'll actually do sample shoots and I can go over like how to actually run, like schedule and run the day even from like the layout of the room to if you want to do IPS or in-person sales versus if you don't do IP, like options for both on how to upsell on the backend as well.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. And again they in-person workshops to be able to see how that stuff is implemented is also something that, like, we don't see a lot of these days, where everyone wants to watch it in a YouTube video and being able to see it in person Great. So I look forward to that. I might come, yeah, i want to come.
Speaker 2:I'll let you know, maybe I'll have a link up available by the time you post this.
Speaker 1:Awesome, awesome, cool. Well, jackie, if that's it, I'm going to let Caroline get back to her day.
Speaker 3:Back to Elliot. Thank you and your other children and husband.
Speaker 1:Cool. Well, Caroline, thank you for being on the show and sharing everything with us. I hope that you're enjoying your summer and maybe we'll get you back on here again when you launched that workshop and you can talk about a little bit more. But again, thank you for being on the show today.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pleasure. I enjoyed our chat and looking forward to the next one.
Speaker 3:Bye.