Something New Every Week
Something New Every Week
Mastering Professional Photography: Branding, Sales, and Business Evolution with Jacqueline Tobin and Jacklyn Greenberg
Imagine a world where you could command the fees you want and keep pace with the ever-changing photography industry. This is the reality for our fabulous guests, Jacqueline Tobin and Jacklyn Greenberg, who enlighten us with their 15-year journey in professional photography. They reveal the art of promoting their brand, how they create meaningful connections with clients by showing their personal side, and their strategies to keep the relevance in the fast-paced industry.
What if you could crack the code to in-person sales in the digital era? Well, Tobin and Greenberg have done just that! They discuss how they've incorporated the power of personal selling into their business model and the significance of a professional team in their strategy. We explore the psychological dynamics of the sales process and how Jacqueline expertly leads her clients to appreciate the worth of the photographs they are crafting.
In the last part of our insightful chat, we uncover how Tobin and Greenberg have transformed their business by building a remote photography team. Hear about their recruitment of an art director from Conair, an IT specialist, and a studio manager. We dive into the story of Kate, who has become an essential link between clients and photographers, and how this change has revolutionized their business. Lastly, they share their journey of transitioning to automated photography systems, offering a comprehensive guide for photographers grappling with the business aspects of their craft. This episode is packed with game-changing advice and insights you won't want to miss!
Hey there, thanks for tuning in to Something New Every Week with your host, me, Jason Group. Each week, I'm going to give you something new that's happening in our photographic world just some great conversations with my friends and what's going on right now. Something New Every Week is sponsored by Miller's Lab. Miller's Professional Imaging is the largest professional lab organization in the United States. They provide professional prints and press products for professional photographers in all 50 states and Canada and they're just a great company. If you don't know them, go check them out. Millerslabcom.
Speaker 1:Welcome to another episode of Something New Every Week. I am excited. We probably talked for almost a half an hour before we began this episode, so I don't know where this is going to go, which is always great. Talking to, I have my co-host, Jacqueline Tobin, and Jacqueline Greenberg here today. I've managed to get that part of the intro. Jacqueline Greenberg here from Connecticut, the New York City area, Connecticut area. We've been friends for a very, very long time. She is an awesome, amazing photographer, has a great studio and we've had lots of real conversations over the years and it's always, as always, a real New York conversation, which is what we were just having. So say hello, guys. Thanks for being on the show again.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me here, Hello guys.
Speaker 1:And it's been a few weeks since Tobin's been here with me, so it's great to have you back. I know you've been super busy. Let's do a quick update on what you've been up to, and I know you've been super busy, which is awesome.
Speaker 3:Me. Yeah, I've been super busy doing a lot of stuff, but not, you know, like I love to. I thrive on being busy. I'm working with Blair DeLaube and Fells at World's Best Wedding Photos, curating real weddings and the members profiles, doing all different sorts of blog posts. That really keeps me busy and I just love it, and between that and sending resumes out, that's a full time job, as you know.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, that's always, always a challenge, but it's been good to see you busy and out there doing things. So, jacqueline, you also, as always, are super-duper busy, as you know. Always, like whenever, it's great when we always have these conversations and get things going. So a little history on Jacqueline. She's a Connecticut-based photographer, new Haven area, am I right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, based in New Haven.
Speaker 1:Yeah, based in New.
Speaker 2:Haven. We've got another studio in Greenwich now as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh, wow. For those of you who don't know, like the Connecticut area it's a super, super busy, you know. It's just far enough away from New York City to have its own identity but often can kind of be overlooked, even though it's an absolutely beautiful area because you've got the coastline and lots of great things. But you've, of course, photographed weddings all over the world. You've been a fearless photographer and award winner and WBI winner. Your work is absolutely gorgeous and I've admired you from afar building all the things that you've done.
Speaker 1:We're going to talk today and, jackie, I'm going to let you take over what we're going to talk about. You know longevity and you know all of that stuff. Being a wedding photographer I think anything beyond 12 to 15 years in our industry, first of all, there should be some sort of medal for that to begin with, but it's that next level stuff. To be to stay relevant in our industry and to continue making work and, more importantly, command the kind of fees that you want to make and shoot the weddings that you want to do, not only at home in your area but across the world, is a super duper challenge. Okay, we're at the end and we're going to wrap it up Again. Thank you for being here. I'm gonna let Jackie take over, tobin take over as far as questions are concerned, but it is really great to have you here again.
Speaker 3:It really is. I've known you, jacqueline, for a very long time. I love your work. I think it's raw and visceral, there's emotion. But what I love that you do is you take very common wedding scenes and make them so unique. I mean, you're always winning awards.
Speaker 3:You know I don't know how you do it and you've maintained this signature voice over time and I think, like a lot of photographers don't know how to achieve that. It's important. But you know, you're also always evolving and today we want to talk more about, like, the business side of things, because I think even great photographers don't really always have a handle on the marketing and business side of things. So we're gonna like dig into that. But one thing I just found out about you because I've known you a long time but I was like, oh wow, she has a degree in environmental chemistry. That's cool. Like I had no idea. I think you're just so multifaceted. I think knowing about a photographer personally, like when a client comes to you and they know things about you beyond, just like the photos that you take I think that is also important.
Speaker 3:You know, you're a real person and you have many different sides, so do you try to build that into conversations, not saying you're in a or you know, studied environmental chemistry, but you know how much do you reveal of yourself, Because I think that's important too when you're getting into the business side of things and promoting your brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's hugely important. It's so interesting just hearing the two of you talk. To start, I realize how many topics we can chat about. There's so many things we can talk about. But I mean I did, I felt the gray hair streak that I have coming in when you said the over 15 years in business, like we really have made it that long to this point and have kept ourselves growing and achieving a whole new level.
Speaker 2:And I think a huge part of that is what you're saying, jackie is keeping ourselves very obtainable to our clients, but in a very vulnerable way. We ask them to be vulnerable for us and I think it's a hugely important fact for us to be that way. For them, there's no question that's too big or too small, and I tell them even there's no question too silly or too stupid, like I want them to know about everything going on in the business side so that they can learn it, understand it and let go of it and then we can focus on playing and creating and collaborating together, because that's where. That's where everything comes into play. So the sales happen by that connection and communication in the beginning, right from the first. Hello is when the sale starts and we also don't consider it sales. I think a lot of people, especially being in a creative industry, they're afraid of sales. But we don't do sales, we're not salespeople. I don't really give a shit what they buy. Can I say that, yes, you can say that, yes, yes, for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, no, I'm saying we can't have a conversation for the budget New Yorkers without without some curse words. So for those of you out there, forgive us.
Speaker 3:I'll say the F word later.
Speaker 1:Which is fine. There's a disclaimer.
Speaker 3:Well, why do you say that you don't give a shit about sales? What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:I don't care what they buy. It's not my artwork, I'm not living with it. So I'll help them figure out what they want and what feels right to them. But the pressure is off, for when we go to have the the air corner, we're on a podcast. When using air quotes that the sales meeting I'm not selling them artwork. I don't care what they buy by a lot, by a little, I'm not living with it, it's not my artwork. So there's no pressure for them to feel that I'm coming about this in a salesy manner, because I'm coming about this as a guide and someone to support them, to help make these important moments and feelings in their lives come to fruition in a way that they can experience forever and ever. Right, so years ago and we can say years ago and understand that we're talking like a decade Years ago there were, you know, actually, even before that, we shot film.
Speaker 2:Right, this is before the digital craze, and before digital came out, we all shot film and we would take a photograph, we would develop it, we would print it. There was a desire to have that live, but it was the only way to experience that photograph was if it was printed. Then the digital craze came along, which was mostly fueled by moms, especially in the wedding world, because for years and years they came along, for years and years they cared for this one album that they had no way of recreating and suddenly, with digital, they had a way to recreate and a way to hold on to something that could be recreated. So everybody said I want my digital, I want my digital, I don't need an album. And then we said have what you want, do what you will. Here's your digital. Good luck with that.
Speaker 2:And then, 10 years later, our clients started knocking on our door our previous clients from 10 years ago and they said hey, I've gotten a new job, new house, I've had kids, and none of them have seen my photographs. And I said but why? You wanted your digital? And they said well, I never took the time to print them, I never knew what to do with them or how to do it.
Speaker 2:Or they tried to print something at some big corporate what is it called? Snap this shutter, fly whatever those big places are. And they've all faded, they've gotten ruined, they're not seeing the test of time and they're realizing how important that moment was and they're coming back to have that printed. So now we have shifted how we do things to provide the service of our clients having the ability to put things into print. We're not selling to them, we're providing a service for our clients to be able to have these important moments forever and ever, and we're doing it in a way where everything is cared for and thought about ahead of time so they don't have to think, they can feel.
Speaker 2:And because on that first phone call, right when you ask if somebody knows about me, you know studying environmental chemistry and science and physics and photography and living overseas, and sometimes those things come up in conversation. Sometimes it comes up that I have multiple siblings, sometimes it comes up that we travel. You know, whatever brings us to a connection with the person we're working with is the thing that comes up. So creating that trust and that connection is what creates the ability to ride this whole process through with them without selling, without being the photographer, without posing, having the ability to soulfully be there, to connect with them, to feel what's going on and help them take something that's unbelievably important in their lives and bring it into a way that they can then carry it on for generations.
Speaker 3:So I read and correct me if I'm wrong. It might have been a rain finder in an article I signed, but I read that you know your studio makes an additional like 75 to 100% on every wedding from album and wall art sales. Is that still true and like, how do you do that specifically? Is there like an example of a client you worked with recently where you can sort of just map that out?
Speaker 2:Sure, you know I haven't figured out the percentages. I gave up math when. I gave up environmental chemistry.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So somebody wants to figure out the percentages on it. That's perfect. I mean, essentially everything we do is a la carte and our clients have the ability to add on whatever they'd like at any point in time. So let's say, for a wedding, I'll use for example, in one year we had our first $100,000 clients. We delivered $60,000 worth of artwork at once. It was most of it had to be dropship from Italy. The rest we drove down to North Carolina about 12 and a half hours and drove the rest of it down in our truck and help them install it. Help them, you know, unwrap it, uncovering, photograph, the whole thing, of course, because it would have beautiful story to have your lives filled with that much artwork.
Speaker 2:But that whole journey started with them just booking us for their wedding Eight hours of coverage, reveal and design session which is that sales meeting, if you will, and an online gallery and the high-res photographs. And we just started there. So we went from 10,000 to 100,000 within a year, and that was all on their own accord. That wasn't by me saying I think you should have this, this is what you should get. I was the one who was like are you sure you want to fill that whole wall. It's a big-ass wall. And she goes I want what I want. And I was like, okay, you can have what you want, but I just want to make sure you're prepared that this is about 20,000 just for the wall alone. So it's really up to the client what they want and when they want it.
Speaker 2:So that couple was an engagement session, a family session, a risque session, a good one session, as it's normally called, the wedding itself and then artwork. From all of those sessions Each one has its own reveal and design time. We're mostly, when we do portraits, we're doing same day reveal and design sessions. So our clients only book one day with us and we will shoot, edit and do a reveal and design session all on the same day. It's a very long day but it's a lot of fun If they come to our studio in Greenwich. We're right at the top of Greenwich Avenue, which, if anyone knows the area, oh wow, I didn't know you were there.
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 2:It's such a beautiful place and you can do anything you want in Greenwich you can go have lunch, you can test drive a Maserati, you can go shopping, you can go for a walk on the beach. There's just so many options right there. So it was our meet in the middle for our New York clients who feel that New Haven and going over two bridges is too far for them.
Speaker 1:So far. I know the area well enough to say that that is so far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but our pizza is really out there, let's not start there. I know New Yorkers think they have good pizza.
Speaker 1:It's better than any pizza that I'm getting in the Midwest. So we agree on that Exactly.
Speaker 2:But so it was our meet in the middle. So we travel an hour to our studio to Greenwich. Our clients from New York travel an hour to meet us, but then our destination clients fly into the city, have a weekend in the city, come up to Greenwich, have a day in Greenwich and spend that time there with us as well, but of course we travel to them and then we'll do a reveal and design session in our Airbnb or at their house or wherever that goes. So the entirety of what we do is flexible and it's really it's up to the client to say hey, these are the photographs I love and this is where I want it. And it happens to be, you know, the wall that they see all the time. But all of those, all of those details happen on that very first phone call. Like I can't stress enough how important it is to help them understand what's meaningful to them, to things they've never spoken about, even to each other, about the way they hold each other or the look they give each other, or the fact that she'll be standing in the room and he'll walk by and just swipe his hand on her back and that lets her know that he's there and she feels safe, right, little things like that. But what happens is that starts to describe the photographs that are going to mean the most to them. So they're literally designing everything. We hand back to them in that conversation and then we find out where it's going to bring them the most joy to sit back and see those visuals in their world, to see those photographs in the world. And they say it's in the living room, it's in the dining room, it's in the bedroom, and they are describing everything that goes on.
Speaker 2:And the most interesting part about it is usually the men. I'm not going to judge anybody here too strongly, but the women are like this sounds amazing, this is amazing. And the men are incredibly skeptical, to the point where, even if we've done an engagement session, they will sit on our sofa and during the reveal and design session for the wedding, they'll look up and they'll go okay, I get it now. I get that you're telling a story here and the story is about us and how we feel. But they'll still be skeptical the entire time or they'll think they're going to have one or two great photos out of this and they get upset with me straight up, angry and upset and they're like what the fuck? And I'm like what did I do? And they're like I want one or two great photos, not 102 great photos, because now our investment is tenfold of what we thought it would be and I'm not going to spend 1800. I'm going to spend 18,000. And that sounds like a crazy number to spend on photographs.
Speaker 2:But when I went home and looked at my walls I realized none of that energy was there. And I have these paintings on my wall that some interior designer put up because the colors look nice. I don't give a shit about those. I want my why, why I have my house, why I have my job, why I have this relationship. It's in those photographs. And so they find the value on their own. I'm just guiding them to find that value and they are literally selling themselves. I'm not selling them. I actually convinced them to get the smaller album and they're like I want the bigger one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but at the same time, not to cut you off, but I think it's important to. You've outlined a lot here and there's some key things that I think are super important. To kind of go back a little bit. So, first of all, your business is based on in-person sales, or some version of IPS, as we call it. So that version of IPS, and there are building blocks that needed to be in place. So I know that when you sell because I know you personally, when you sell, when you're in front of a client, you're saying to them I'm just guiding you through this process, whatever you want, I'm not going to be super salesy. You and I are very similar in that way. As far as the sales process is concerned, it's not hard press, like some IPS people are right it is, but it's the psychological impact of that and the way that you put that in place.
Speaker 1:But there's so much that needs to be in place leading up to. I'm not really going to sell you anything. You have all the tools there and you have a team in place, that's. You know, there's a lot of people that would really screw up that. Hey, we just booked a wedding in Italy, we delivered the wedding, we've done this, this and this, and now we're driving down to California with North Carolina with $25,000 worth of product that we're installing. You just don't get from point A to point B without having all of those tools in place. So I kind of want to back up just a little bit to talk about your team and how that works and how you're selling, Because you need to be able to sell the $20,000 worth of products. You need to know what that is. So can you talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:Yes, there's three versions. There's the pre-pandemic version, there's the pandemic version and the post-pandemic version, and I think it's important to hit on all three versions because they're dramatically different. When we first started, selling in person was obviously pre-pandemic and I had to help shift the mindset of our entire team to what our intent was. And our intent wasn't to take on more work, our intent wasn't to make more money. Our intent was to help our clients and to keep our focus on changing their lives. So that was one of the most important places to start, because if they didn't have the right mindset and we did have an employee who didn't have the right mindset she didn't like it, she didn't think it was worth it and she couldn't be part of that team in the switch to move into IPS. She couldn't really wrap her head around why having that phone call was so important and that I had to get so deep with people to find these things out, to do it in this manner where we weren't selling. The rest of the team was like okay, let's make new systems, let's make new spreadsheets, let's make new tracking, let's make ways to have checks and balances that we are following a system that we are creating, that we can't fuck it up. So part of my take on this and I will totally blame the fact that I'm a Virgo that explains a lot. That explains a lot, especially for the both of us. That is the number one thing. So I don't make mistakes. I don't like making mistakes, I want everything perfect, I want it all in order. But doing that means that we can then create a better service for our clients, right, because we don't have any bullshit, we don't have bad clients, we don't have mistakes and when they do happen, we catch them before the client knows, right, so there's always a way to kind of work it through where they only have a great experience. So that was the first part of creating the shift to go into IPS. It actually started within our hearts and our souls and not necessarily within our business, but then the business had to shift.
Speaker 2:Now pandemic happens and also, I will say, pre-pandemic. It is also about having the right businesses to help support you. So our artwork companies we consider our silent business partners and the fact that they give us such a great interaction and experience means we can provide that for our clients. So that also is a huge part of having success within person sales is that, on the other hand, everyone is there to support you your team, your silent business partners, your systems, everything is in place that this can all then run smoothly and then you can take this on in a very logistic manner. It'll go very quickly.
Speaker 2:So then the pandemic hits and, of course, everything we ever knew got sidelined. Our team graciously got other jobs during the pandemic, which we were grateful for at the time because we didn't have to carry them through but then we didn't quite get them back because, of course, their jobs realized how amazing they were and their ideals changed as well. Maybe they didn't want to shoot weddings as much, or they wanted to travel more. Everybody shifted everything. So then, from 2020 to 2022, chris and I did everything ourselves just the two of us everything, and I'm talking about. It sounds like a joke, but it's actually really a joke. It sounds like a joke, but it's actually real that, chris, I'm very spoiled. I'm not gonna lie. Chris does all the cooking, does all the grocery shopping. That alone is something that I could never show enough gratitude for, but during this time, he was bringing beautiful cooked plates of food to my right and picking up dirty plates to my left and 16, 18 hours a day.
Speaker 2:This is what was happening, and during this time it stressed our systems to the max, because if something wasn't right in the system then I couldn't keep up with everything. All our communication with our clients shifted to text message because I could text eight people at once and be talking to eight people at once and getting things done. And then I was literally Chris was also driving everywhere and I was editing and calling and working on everything in the car every time we drove somewhere. So then one of those times you sit back with an old friend and you're bitching about what's going on and they go you gotta check out this program, it's gonna help you, and I'm like nothing's gonna help me. Now this is like the worst possible thing I could be doing is trying to keep up the extent of where we were and grow the business when it's just Chris and I and recover from a pandemic.
Speaker 2:And that's when I learned about Aftershoot and was able to. Well, so of course, my New York part of me, maybe the Virgo part of me, kicked in when they very first started. I said this is interesting, and then I emailed them and said this is crap, fix it, because I wanna use it and it's life changing and we need it. And they responded and said we've never got an email like that before and I'm like welcome to my world. I'm here to help you fix it anything I can do, but let's get this off the ground because our industry needs this. I'm tired of spending my life calling and editing.
Speaker 2:So Aftershoot comes on board. We get them rolling with everything, and Chris and I did everything and grew the business. We made another $100,000 that year, in 2022, when it was just the two of us, but it wasn't fun and I was tired and all I did was work and our clients are amazing, so that also helped it, because anything we needed our clients were there for hey, timing change or things going on or five minutes late. But we're also, mind you, now running Facebook ads to get new leads coming in and I'm talking to four times the amount of people to be able to get them in while still doing the work for our current clients, our new clients, doing the shooting. If we weren't doing full same day shoot, edit and reveal, I could not have kept this up, but we were then doing that six days a week in order at points in time. So there was one point in time, for six weeks in a row, we shot six days a week and now, mind you, we brought in like $60,000 on a week, which was amazing.
Speaker 2:But we were exhausted and so I knew I had to bring in a new team. Except things had changed. I didn't necessarily want everyone working in-house with me, I didn't necessarily want to be responsible of who was going to show up at what time and be doing what thing, and I also didn't want to have to look for the team. I wanted the universe and the right people to kind of just connect the same way We've connected over the years. I just kind of wanted that to happen.
Speaker 2:And so, as usual, you know, you say something to one person. They're like you must have such an amazing business, and I'm like well, it's fun, but I'm exhausted, I need to hire somebody. And she goes. I know somebody who's looking for a job. I think they'd be a perfect fit, right, and that person, for five months, would message me every couple weeks and say hey, just want to let you know I'm here for you, just want to let you know when you're ready. I'd love to work for you. Just want to let you know.
Speaker 2:I saw what you did or what you posted and I love it. And they just kept on going on and going on. I was like I don't have time for this now, because I was maxed out on what I could handle. And then, sure enough, over the winter, when we think we can do a few more things, and all of a sudden we're heading to Vegas for WPPI, you know, I finally reached out and said, okay, let's do this, because who in their right mind keeps up for five months? Wow, as they want to work with you. And it turns out that she was the senior art director for Conair. Who does? Conair does, like you know, hair dryers.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, for Conair and Cuisinart, yes, you know I used to be a photographer for them. Oh, okay, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:I used to work in those offices in old Greenwich. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll save that for another conversation after this call, but that's hilarious. Okay, God, sorry.
Speaker 2:Well, so she's very skilled on knowing good art and compositions and what feels right as an artist, and that was something she noticed. If you're creating art like this, there's got to be something to be said about who's behind this and what's going on behind this, and she wanted to be part of it. And now her. She was there for 20 years. The only reason she wasn't there anymore was because of the pandemic. It wasn't like it was because of she. Oh my God, I probably know this person.
Speaker 2:She did, it turns out that we have some clients and some people that all know each other, so that also made it incredible. But so she came on and I actually had my first meeting and started training her while we were in Vegas doing WPPI for the first time back in years and everything was remote. But then I realized, hey, I need someone on the back end to do artwork. And so I just posted in the place that everybody posts in the entire world, which is Facebook, and said does anybody want to be an associate shooter? I wasn't even sure. I wasn't even thinking about the artwork. I was thinking, hey, our previous shooters, they're here, still here for us when we want them, but they're not here in the same extent. Who wants to do this?
Speaker 2:And Nikki came through and she goes I'll shoot for you. And I've been watching your work and seeing your work for almost 20 years now and I've always admired it and I want to come and work with you. Everyone else said I want to learn from you, and that's kind of one of those things where somebody goes can I pick your brain? And I'm like can you at least offer to buy me a drink? We'll think our cup of coffee or something beforehand Before you just want to pick my brain. But so then, in the conversation with her, we got into artwork and albums this night and she goes. I love designing albums.
Speaker 3:I love editing and I was like who says that.
Speaker 2:So now she's taken on all the back end, and so now the whole business had to switch to fully being fully remote, which means we need a NAS network attached storage instead of a direct attached storage. We now have 5G internet here, which is blazing fast. We have all of 44 terabytes of information uploaded onto the cloud that we can access, but so, as much as I can do all those things and have done all our IT work over the years, I also realized that the best thing I can do is tap out to other professionals, and that's what was going on with creating the team again Is I did it before, where I had other people doing this work, and I could then do what I do best, which is work with the clients, work with other industry professionals and shoot, and that's what will bring in the most money. I don't necessarily need to be going a little bit more magenta, a little bit more green. I can teach someone else to do that stuff. So then we found Max, and Max is our IT guy who has spent more time with me at odd hours than anybody else in the past few months, but he has fully switched our system over, and that required rewriting the systems of how we do things. And now we're at a point where everyone can work on their own. They don't need me. Actually, right before I jumped on with you, I sent a quick message and said hey, I'm going to be out for the next hour. Who needs me on something? Everyone said all good working on this, all good working on that.
Speaker 2:And then so the missing piece of the puzzle. So we had Marcy coming in for studio management, nikki coming in for post-processing. She also handles the proofing with the clients, sending things into print, all the artwork, retouching we still do with Image Ceylon and then she proofs it. When it all comes back in, the missing piece of the puzzle was all the time I was taking to talk to people before they booked us.
Speaker 2:And so we had a client, kate, who was so moved by her experience she had invested over 10,000 in her artwork and she said I want to come work with you and, same as Nikki, same as Marcy, for about six months she was like when can I work with you? When can I start working with you? And so she handles our calls now and she gets a phone with the clients and takes them. Through this experience and we spent time training her and getting her into being a friend on the phone, because everyone would say to me these are cold leads that come in from Facebook right, they don't know us from anywhere, but they get off the phone and they're like I feel like I've known you forever, I feel like I'm talking to a friend and now Kate's in that role where they make that connection with her. She builds a connection with me and with Chris.
Speaker 2:We do the shoot, we hand the stuff off to Nikki, marcy does all the invoicing and contracting and communication. Even when we were on just now, I said, hey, can you push my 115 to 130?, because there's no way we're going to be off.
Speaker 3:I'm raising my hand because A can I work with you? Because I need a job. I'm not going to be like, is there any? You know, not to be devil's advocate here, but is there any sort of disconnect between, like, if I'm a client and I'm hiring Jag Studios Jacqueline Greenberg, and then this other woman gets on the phone and establishes the connection? Is there any disconnect there? Well, a client say, but I want to know who Jacqueline?
Speaker 2:is. You know how does that work?
Speaker 2:We invested in a system called Open Phone, which is a work line that allows us all to text and call our clients from the same work line. So when we do it, and a lot of times on the calls let's say it's with you, start with Kate for risque shoots, or I'm on with somebody for a wedding, we prep them for hey, here's how the system works, Right? Marcy's the one who's going to be in touch to handle all these things with you. Chris and I will be there for your shoot. And then you know, once we're in the reveal and design session, I'm like here's how it's going to go. Next, You're going to do all your proofing. Nikki's going to take it from here. She does all your album design. And we say we have a retoucher in Canada, so it just sounds more appealing than they don't know who Image Slot is. We just say we have a retoucher in.
Speaker 2:Canada, you're not wrong.
Speaker 2:You know technically what it is, and then you're going to do your proofing session with Nikki. She'll approve everything. I'm here on the back end to oversee it all and if you need anything, just message Marcy and she'll let me know. And then, when they want to have a call with me, marcy will check in and say, hey, jacqueline wants to have a call with you, let me schedule it. Or hey, I want to chat with Jacqueline, sure, let me schedule it this time for you. So it's actually become what it was years ago pre-pandemic, where I then became the reach, the person that they wanted to get to, wanted to interact with and felt that it was a privilege to talk to me. It sounds weird for me to say this, but I guess that's technically what it is, and so they would work with our whole team knowing that the team is here for them and for me, but we just put everything into place, that this is normal operating procedure, and that's exactly it.
Speaker 1:Sorry, jason, so I'm going to let we're 35 minutes now, so I'm going to let Jackie ask one final question, but kind of a recap question, but I want to recap, I want to recap, I want to recap, I want to recap. You know kind of everything you just said, which is exactly what I why I asked that question was you know all those pieces in place and the exhaustive process it is to get there? Thank you for detailing that, because for those of you who are listening, that's the part that I wanted you to hear is that and you kind of put it in a you know pre pandemic to post pandemic, you know kind of format, but that, taking that, that north carolina client, all of those pieces needed to be in place for you to get there, because it just doesn't happen by accident training those people, finding those right people, keeping those people, and then all the tools. Now, post pandemic, we have some amazing tools, but you need to find the ones that are working for you that person that's answering the phone, you're able to monitor their conversations, but also learning, being able to hand over and trust that person to do you you right and represent you.
Speaker 1:Jag studios and that company. That's not an easy transition. It's not. We're still working in a very personal business, but now everything's in the cloud, everything's working remotely. I can go do things in a million different places, and now it's going to allow you to do all the things that you do. Thank you for sharing with us, because that's that's amazing.
Speaker 3:So I'm going to let jackie that's one final question, and then we're going to have to go oh no, I have two, but okay, that's the first one is like yeah, in a bit of a recap, you know it takes a team really and like you've been able to like build a team and work with them seamlessly. You know, and I think when you're working with clients, it's all about the communication and you're not hitting clients over the head with sales and basically they're coming up with what they want, what they think. It's like, it's great how you've like seamlessly gotten that in place, you know, and it's very authentic. Um, do you have like one?
Speaker 3:I don't know if you could boil it down to like one good piece of advice for photographers who really struggle with okay, I'm here to shoot, but now I have got the whole business side and you know they just get so consumed with the other side of it. It feels like you're not just like going, like and saying, okay, I'm outsourcing everything. You know you're building a team and it's really in sourced, if that makes sense, like is there anything you can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, there was years ago, before there were businesses we could outsource to. Everything was in sourced. So we had multiple stations in the studio, we had multiple editors and I would literally stand there and say, okay, fix that. And you got to check that and do that over, and now we can outsource those things or use ai to make those things happen. I think the most important part of what has carried us through has been our systems and creating a system that has checks and balances, but also a way to hold everyone accountable so that nothing falls through the, the hoops, um, or the falls through the holes, I don't know yeah, that's the right way to say it that's the way to say it, um, but, but that really is it.
Speaker 2:So, even though we've come this far, from the, the pre-pandemic team that was mostly in-house, to the pandemic version that was just chris and I alone, that really stressed our systems because I had to know where everything was, to keep up on everything myself, so things couldn't take time to run the systems and do the checks and balances, um, and now on this post-pandemic um remote version, where we have one person in texas, one person in florida, one person in massachusetts, one in um, um, but obviously canada. And then, oh my god, where's christian? He's overseas in europe, remember, I can't do it fast enough he's overseas in europe. Um, and then marcie's in grenadj kate actually just moved to new haven to be closer to us. So we have do have somebody a little more in person. But in order to balance all this, I realized that our systems need a next level, and now it's time to get into systems that can be a little more automated, and so I have been.
Speaker 2:I did hear it from niki yesterday. She's like I love this idea, jack, but can we please make this a fucking winter project, because we're all in this. You know the fall version of everything that goes on in the business. She's like can you not do this right now? And I'm like this is the idea stage. This is us writing down what we think can be automated, writing down what we want to see in analytics and just gathering information from all of us on how we can then automate this.
Speaker 2:And this is the first time in 18 years of business that I'm actually looking for someone else to build the system. I've always built the systems and created the automations. But now we have zaptir, we have trello, we have, you know, honey book, we have all these different systems we're working with. How can we make them all start to talk together so the systems will become more automated, that we can then put our time into finding business, getting in, landing business and not into manually pushing things through the system. So we are about to embark on the next level of automation and systems. But I mean, without that, without that part, it really it's easy to have things fall through the cracks, and the easier you create that system on the back end, the more time and energy you can put to your clients.
Speaker 3:So and also, maybe you have some free time, like so you've created, maybe you have some free time now. Don't understand one more time. So my last question is now, with all this free time, on your hands. What's the last thing you binge watched on that flip?
Speaker 2:oh, that's a great, that's amazing. So how did you know that my nights end with me binge watching I do I know you that's it.
Speaker 2:So right now I'm watching suits, I'm on, I'm in for I'm feeling very voyeuristic and like I want to throw down on some intense situation, but because our systems, our clients are so great, we don't have intense situations, so have to just swallow the energy down. Um, but it's just brilliant. You know great acting, great, great shows like that I did. Um, I watched swat before. That, which was great, is a lot of like after a while same thing over and over again. But, um, I have still been doing some of the editing myself just to kind of keep things moving quickly. So it was nice to like not have to look at the tv. I could just hear what's going on and they're going to go shoot the next guy and save somebody, and so it's kind of I think it's, you know, important to have that time.
Speaker 3:Also it clears my head to binge watch all these shows. I recommend silo on apple so good, yeah, right, but so jason knows that I never go, I never stick to the 30 minutes. So sorry, jason, I mean food is going into it didn't it? It's been such a pleasure to talk with you, and I think we'll talk for real appreciate hearing what you've had to say today. So thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's such a pleasure. I'm always happy to take on different concepts and topics and I mean I'll you know I'll chat with the tuba. I have so much love for you both and we've done so much in this industry over the years. It's great to see that you're still putting back to photographers and helping them grow and build and the honor to be a part of that.
Speaker 3:And thanks for thinking of me and having me here of course, because the industry spit us or shoot us up and spit us out, but we're still, we're still here, we're still here, we are still here, that's for sure, and that's we're not going anywhere. That's right, we're not going anywhere.
Speaker 1:You hear that, you hear that, you hear that. Internet in the world. We're not going anywhere. We got a lot to offer. Still, uh and uh, yeah.
Speaker 2:Good place to bet your energy and your integrity and intelligence of what you know about this industry and what goes on in it and how to work with it is huge, and so you're an incredibly huge asset and I think it's. Whatever's going to come up next is going to be hopefully, bring it to that next level that you deserve to have.
Speaker 3:Bring it, bring it yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's wrap it up there, because I do like to keep these under 45 minutes. But thank you, as Jackie said, thank you for being here with us and sharing your stories with us, and it's definitely, I hope, this information is helpful to you guys. Are you teaching or doing any workshops anytime in the near future?
Speaker 2:That's been on the list for a while and it's not coming off the list, it's just once we can get the team fully up and running. Then I can take a step back and create that. I've had a lot of people ask for workshops or I've been doing a lot of one-on-one work. During the pandemic I worked with an incredible couple to teach them how to do multiple albums. So when we sell our albums.
Speaker 2:I didn't touch on this point. Most of our wedding clients buy two to four albums, they don't just buy one, and so they were having a hard time even selling one. And after they went through a mentoring session for about four months, they said maybe four weeks, and I looked at their work and was like we're going to this is going to be a few months of working together, but their first sale was $10,000, which was amazing, okay, cool. So yeah, I'd like to get back into that and be able to help people see this other side of being able to sell All right, okay, so those of you listening, you can always reach out to Jacqueline for that stuff as well as well.
Speaker 1:So, all right, we're going to wrap here. Thank you again for being on this week's episode of Something New Every Week.
Speaker 1:Thank you If you would like to be on an episode. You have some fun stuff to share. Me and Jackie are not hard to find. Just reach out and find us and thank you again for being. We will see you guys on the next episode of SNU. See you next week, take care everyone. Thanks again for tuning into Something New Every Week. I hope you enjoyed this episode and if you do enjoy these episodes, I love it if you hit that subscribe button on. However, you're listening to this Again. We want to thank our sponsor, miller's Lab, miller's Labcom Great company. If you're not familiar with them, you should go check them out. Thanks again for tuning into Something New Every Week. We will see you back here next week.